Every coffee has a story
Feb. 8, 2022

Donut Wars!

Donut Wars!

What do Nazis and the bin Laden family have to do with coffee? Find out in this week's episode of Donut Wars! We contrast and compare Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts coffee (and doughnuts!) and learn about their fascinating and, at times, dark histories. Can we find no bad reviews in these staples of Americana?

"So the evil heads of power of the world, of the United States and in the Middle East, coming together for doughnuts and ice cream? This is world peace."

Coffees:

https://www.krispykreme.com/menu/coffee-and-drinks/bold-1937-ground-coffee

https://www.dunkinathome.com/products/ground-coffee/dunkin-dark

Further reading:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/world/europe/nazi-laborers-jab-holding.html

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-sep-23-me-rosenberg23-story.html

https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/krispy-kreme.htm

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8635232-time-to-make-the-donuts

Sponsored by Modest Coffee! Single-origin coffee without the snobbery. Visit https://www.modest.coffee/nobadreviews to see what they're roasting today.

Transcript
Unknown 0:03 This podcast is brought to you by modest coffee, single origin coffee without the snobbery go to www dot modest dot coffee forward slash no bad reviews to see what coffees they're roasting today cheers Unknown 0:41 Hello and welcome to no bad reviews colon a coffee podcast, a podcast where we try coffee any coffee and give no bad reviews their second episode and you're here. Welcome. I'm Jenni and I run all the operations at a coffee company called modest coffee. Unknown 1:00 And I'm Marcus 2021 Good Food Award winning coffee roaster also at modest coffee. Unknown 1:05 And I'm Stephanie and I have been the employee of the month at modest coffee for 32 consecutive months. Here's how this works. We are going to try the coffee black. We're going to add cream and sugar. We're going to add whiskey if we need to. Oh it looks like we've got whipped cream on the table today. And we are going to keep drinking this coffee until we have something really nice to say. *dog barking* Unknown 1:31 That was perfect. We forgot to mention Unknown 1:33 Cora, the dog Cora the Explorer. She just wanted to make sure that we did not forget about her. Sorry Cora. You don't go outside every time you ring the doorbell especially when it's eight degrees outside in Chicago. So anyways, how are you guys doing? I'm glad to be here on Sunday. Oh Unknown 1:52 excited. So excited to be here today surrounded by doughnuts. Unknown 1:56 We decided to do this because of your wonderful mother. Unknown 2:00 It was my mother in law. She gave a gift to my husband. That was a bag of ground coffee from Krispy Kreme Unknown 2:08 knowing that you work at a coffee roaster. Yeah, Unknown 2:11 it was a gift with a couple of beautiful mugs. Um, we decided that if we had Krispy Kreme coffee, we should maybe compare it to Dunkin Donuts coffee today is donut or so happy to be here. Unknown 2:27 We have donuts to compare Krispy Kreme versus Dunkin Donuts. You got glazed right. Yeah, that's all I got it the Krispy Kreme too. I got a mini one. It's as good as I remember from like, last time I had one which was probably like 15 years ago. So I cheated a little bit I guess Unknown 2:42 I knew you would on the drive. I know. Unknown 2:46 I know. I took the 30 minute drive. You know, there used to be Krispy Kreme all over the Chicago area. And then they started shutting him down for some reason. Yeah, we'll Unknown 2:54 talk about that. Unknown 2:55 And oh, I can't wait. Yeah, I mean, that's a real bummer cuz I never had Krispy Kremes we were Dunkin Donuts family. And then one day when I was probably like, 18 I had a Krispy Kreme and I was like, What the fuck? Why have we been going to Dunkin Donuts for donuts Krispy Kremes are so much better. Unknown 3:12 Well, we'll talk about why that is too. Unknown 3:14 Oh, so much intrigue. I can't wait. Were there, you know, literal Unknown 3:18 donut wars like happening in Chicago? Unknown 3:21 Sure yeah. All these companies have been there for a while although I feel like maybe Krispy Kreme is at war with Dunkin Donuts and Dunkin Donuts is at war with Starbucks. Unknown 3:33 Sounds to me like there's a hierarchy here and Krispy Kreme is at the bottom Krispy Kreme Unknown 3:37 has had some struggles. I think they'll pull through okay though. Oh, I went to the local Dunkin Donuts thinking I would be in and out and they had the restaurant closed it was drive thru only I don't know if that's like normal but when I got to the window I had to wait for the for people working there who were just sort of standing around to finish their conversation before one of them lead out the window and with like, what what did you order? I don't know. Yeah, I'm not going to go Uh, no, not at 9am on Sunday morning ever again. I know that Unknown 4:06 hear that Dunkin Donuts? lost yourself at 9am on Sunday Unknown 4:11 my first job was at Dunkin Donuts. Oh, Unknown 4:14 tell us all about it. Unknown 4:16 Kind of like your experience where a bunch of people stood around and were like surprised that somebody was in the window all the time. Unknown 4:24 Did you get to make the donuts? I started to learn Unknown 4:28 how to cook on the fryer but then they sold out to another bigger group of regional owners of Dunkin Donuts and then I didn't. Unknown 4:38 So are you saying that when you worked at Dunkin Donuts they were hand cut. They cut by a machine they were hand cut. Yeah, I do not think that that was the case of Dunkin Donuts anymore. I don't think so. We talked about how we're kind of Dunkin Donuts people and I don't know, I feel like we should have a Krispy Kreme person here. I hope that we can be fair and balanced when we taste test everything. Unknown 5:00 I'll be team Krispy Kreme. Unknown 5:01 Um, have you had the Krispy Kreme coffee ever? Never. I don't think I have either and none of us have then. That's exciting. Unknown 5:07 I didn't even know they made coffee. Unknown 5:09 Yeah, till your lovely mother in law passed Unknown 5:11 it along. Yeah, yeah. Unknown 5:13 But maybe since we're brewing it. I'm excited about us brewing it because we're going to do it the right way. Unknown 5:17 I actually am excited about us brewing it because Dunkin Donuts is my go to for emergency coffee on the road, and it is very hit or miss. it really depends on the particular franchise on how long ago it was brewed. It really can vary quite a bit. So I Unknown 5:36 think the two coffees are going to taste exactly the same. That's what I think I think they're going to be exactly the same. I think that there maybe even roasted by the same person and just packaged into two different bags. That's funny. Unknown 5:47 The descriptions of the two coffees are almost identical on the two separate websites. Unknown 5:54 Whoa. All right. So Steph, her lovely mother in law gave her the Krispy Kreme bold 1937 Dark Roast. So I went and picked up the Dunkin dark dark roast. Both of them ground coffee. Unknown 6:09 Really excited. Yeah. Well, we Unknown 6:11 just have to talk about the history of both companies. Yeah, 90 minutes. I'm gonna start with the oldest company, Dunkin Donuts Krispy Kreme, like 25 years older than Dunkin Donuts. So officially Krispy Kreme was founded in 1937. But we're gonna go back a few years before that even our story starts sometime around 1930 with a man who's completely unrelated to Krispy Kreme named Joseph LeBeau. Or possibly Joseph lebouf. I saw his name spelled differently and Unknown 6:44 That's Shia Lebouf's great grandfather. Unknown 6:47 There's so much there's like a shroud of mystery around the Krispy Kreme origin story. Oh, so mystery. I don't like I wish I knew more. I'm Joseph LeBeau was from New Orleans and he was working as a cook on an Ohio River riverboat and he became very famous regionally for these donuts that he made. He made these amazing unbelievable doughnuts. Unknown 7:13 Shia Lebouf's great grandfather. Unknown 7:16 We're gonna go with that. Unknown 7:18 I think that Shia Lebouf should speak to a lawyer. Actually, I don't know what the statute of limitations is on like recipe theft. Oh shit. But at the same time in Paducah, Kentucky. There was a man named Ishmael Armstrong, who henceforth will be uncle Ishmael and he had a general store in Paducah, Kentucky and he somehow acquired this donut recipe. Joseph LeBeau invented the Krispy Kreme donut and didn't see a penny of that Krispy Kreme money. Somehow, Uncle Ishmael got the recipe and was selling these donuts out of his general store. And they were the talk of Paducah. People really freaked out about these doughnuts. In 1933, his 18 year old nephew Vernon Rudolph came to work for him in the store and this is the founder officially of Krispy Kreme Vernon Rudolph. Oh, we missed an Unknown 8:21 opportunity to call him uncle Vern. Unknown 8:24 I am going to call him Vern though. I do like that, Vern. Vern. Unknown 8:28 Alright, so old Vern Unknown 8:30 so Vern shows up to help his uncle, Uncle Ishmael but it is the middle of the Great Depression. And the store is not doing well. And they make a decision to move to Nashville, Tennessee, because they think they'll have more success. And they get to Nashville, like so many people do. They get to Nashville in 1934 and they decide to just have a bakery like they don't reopen the general store. They just open a donut bakery and they call it Krispy Kreme. Uncle Ishmael is technically the owner of the first Krispy Kreme, so that was 1934 and they called it the Krispy Kreme donut company. By 1937 Vernon had enough money to open his own. So Vernon decided to open his Krispy Kreme in Winston Salem, North Carolina because his favorite company already existed in Winston Salem, smoky, smoky, Camel cigarette company and just wanted to move closer to the it's definitely true. I read that in multiple places a real Unknown 9:39 commitment to lung cancer. Spoiler alert Vernon did die pretty young. Lung cancer were just gonna go or heart disease. I mean, lung cancer. Unknown 9:54 He opened his Krispy Kreme in 1937 in Winston Salem and he did not sell directly to the public. His business model was to sell to other convenience stores and different places. So right off the bat that was his idea he would bake from midnight to 4am and then he would deliver I found a picture of a 1939 Krispy Kreme delivery truck and it is the cutest thing I've ever seen. We'll have to post that on the website. It's gorgeous. Unknown 10:22 1939 Krispy Kreme truck. Unknown 10:24 Yes, it's green. It's it's very cool people kept turning up between midnight and 4am because they could like smell the doughnuts cooking so he did end up selling if you came between midnight and 4am could buy a fresh doughnut right out of the oil from Krispy Kreme. You had to look and see if the light was on to know if he was there. Cooking donuts which is something that Krispy Kreme retained. Like if you go to one of the bakeries, they turn like a big red light on wow if the doughnuts are being cooked which is like that is Unknown 10:57 so fun. We should do that when we're at work. So when people like stop by, we'll just take our all of our hours off Google, and just have a red light. Unknown 11:05 Business expanded quite a bit through the 50s. The red light is definitely a great idea. And he was all over the southeast. I think he did have a store in Ohio really early, but it was mostly all throughout the Southeast, and then he died in 1973. So the company was purchased in 1976 by Beatrice foods in Chicago Unknown 11:26 at a at an estate sale. Unknown 11:30 It was picked up by Beatrice foods which did not ring a bell to me the name of that company which later became ConAgra Unknown 11:42 Ah, so Beatrice Foods was probably some cute little Chicago local thing and then ConAgra was like we're gonna take you now. Unknown 11:49 Beatrice Foods was definitely smaller. They were also assholes. They got in some trouble for polluting some waterways, yada yada. Anyways the franchisees managed to buy the company back in 1982. And then they had a rapid expansion in the 90s. Yeah 1998 was the first store in Chicago that opened. Unknown 12:14 That's interesting because a Chicago company bought it in the 70s at the estate sale, it took them 20 years to open a location in Chicago. Unknown 12:21 Isn't that funny? They stayed down south for quite a while. In 2000 the company went public. This is when we enter the SEC investigation chapter of the Krispy Kreme history Unknown 12:36 Shia Lebouf's great-grandfather is like pay up homie. Unknown 12:42 Every time that I feel like every time a company goes public something happens badly after that. Unknown 12:47 Listen to what they wrote. This is this is really something I was really surprised when I read about this well not surprised because businesses are so inherently evil. Okay, so you have like the parent company right and Krispy Kreme franchisees, franchisees have to buy all of their equipment and all of their product from what is it the Krispy Kreme manufacturing division like you cannot source your own anything it's all comes from Krispy Kreme headquarters. So the parent company was maximizing profits at their level instead of at the franchise level. And what ended up happening was franchises were competing with each other they were opening so close together that they were competing with each other and also during this time they started selling donuts to gas stations, convenience stores, grocery stores, and so they really flooded the market with donuts. The real diehard Krispy Kreme fans were pissed off to see doughnuts in the grocery store. Yeah, I remember. I mean it was really people like they lost some brand loyalty due to that. They got to a point where their earnings were disappointing. They weren't meeting their goals because the franchises just weren't able to sell what was projected. Unknown 14:08 Well, I'll say one thing that I find interesting is that they started out as a company delivering to gas stations and convenience stores and that sounds like what is bringing that down. What Unknown 14:19 did yeah, it become a problem. Unknown 14:21 Their downfall. What took them up, took them right back down. Unknown 14:26 Then what the company decided to do to fix this whole cashflow problem. It's called channel stuffing. At the end of each quarter, they would send all the franchises twice what they ordered, loaded it on the books it looked like they had met their sales goal. Unknown 14:45 You know what that sounds like some multi level marketing shit right there. Unknown 14:49 The SEC said there was no intentional illegal activity. The SEC investigated and said Well, it seems like you guys weren't intentionally trying to break any law. Unknown 15:04 Okay, so I know this is a podcast and nobody can see me roll my eyes, but I'm rolling my eyes. Unknown 15:11 I wonder if they had that SEC person like in their pocket. They're like filtering or funneling him some donuts. Unknown 15:19 This CEO of Krispy Kreme did not blame himself for any accounting issues. He didn't feel as though penetrating the market was the problem at all. Do you want to guess what he blamed for their poor sales? Dunkin Dunkin Donuts? I don't know not. So the time had no problem with sales. The CEO of the company said the reason that their sales numbers were down with the Atkins diet was ruining their Unknown 15:47 early 2000s. Atkins was really popular back Unknown 15:50 then that's like no harm but she bacon diet and Unknown 15:55 I remember hearing about Atkins from the CEO was like Unknown 15:59 Oh um, then in 2016 Krispy Kreme came under private ownership of a German Investment Company, Marcus? JAB holdings, JAB holdings. Marcus has just mentioned this company to me the other day randomly and I was like, wait, I know about them. So what do you know about JAB Holdings? Unknown 16:22 I know that they're a conglomerate that's been scooping up all sorts of specialty coffee interests across the country. So I know that they own their own Krispy Kreme. They own Intelligensia. They own Stumptown. And if they're looking for a small to medium sized coffee roaster in Chicago... Unknown 16:44 They are a global coffee empire. Pete's coffee and tea, Keurig Green Mountain, espresso house, Krispy Kreme, Panera, Einstein Brothers, Stumptown, intelligentsia. They own Keurig and Green Mountain? Yeah. Unknown 16:59 Holy fuck. Unknown 17:00 That's crazy. Do you have like their their old school history from like, the uh certain uh middle of last century? Unknown 17:08 I sure do. I sure do. You know, I looked at their website to see like, who is JAB and that company was founded under a different name in 1823. It's like a 200 year old company. They were originally a chemical manufacturing company in Germany in 1823. There is a timeline on the website and the first thought on the timeline is 1823. And the next step on the timeline is 1980. Unknown 17:38 Oh shit just so they have like, it's like in Wizard of Oz, like do not worry about whatever's going on behind that curtain. We're just gonna take you 150 years, don't worry, in Germany for sure. BEEP Okay, but you got to leave in the part where you say I'm going to have to cut that out because I'm gonna get sued by JAB. Unknown 18:04 Can I say anything about, can I speculate about Nazi Germany? Unknown 18:08 Okay, so you can say some sources say, but then you might have to defend your sources. Unknown 18:15 So, I'm going to say I have no clue and all I do know for certain is that you know, what happened in that 100 year period, world war one and world war two, and it, and they were a chemical company, and they were a chemical company during the same time. Unknown 18:33 I could not find any information anywhere that said that they were making any anything related to war like that. Okay. And for sure that that's the tell. What they were doing was using forced labor... oh shit... in their chemical plants. They were legitimately Nazis are not good Germans and they were not... Unknown 19:02 Were they, like, using like Auschwitz forced labor? Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, okay. Yeah, my God. Yeah, Unknown 19:10 they it's like they're not gonna put, hey, you know, for this 150 years, war crimes. Unknown 19:15 Like literally war crimes, that's they were doing. Unknown 19:17 How was this company not taken to Nuremberg? Unknown 19:20 um, nobody seemed to know that they had anything to do with any of this until like 2019 When a newspaper story came out, and then the company was like, oh, yeah, we feel really bad about that. Oh, my God. We're going to donate a bunch of money to some some Holocaust museums. And yeah, sorry. Oh my god. Oops. But what's interesting is this company is still owned by the same family, 200 years. Are you serious? There are currently four people who are siblings who own the entire company worth $50 billion. Unknown 19:58 Wait, how many Wait, how many siblings? Unknown 20:01 four siblings? $50 million. Unknown 20:03 Yeah, and they all own it together. Unknown 20:04 Yes. Oh, my God. That's 12 and a half each. Unknown 20:08 I'm like speechless. I know. I'm kind of in shock right now. Unknown 20:12 I'm a little disgusted. I feel like that's going to taint my like, you know, coffee. Unknown 20:17 I like looking at the box of Krispy Kreme Doughnuts. I'm like, how am I gonna find joy and.. Unknown 20:21 Yeah, enjoy your fucking Nazi donuts. Oh, yeah. Then they started investing in companies buying up companies in the 80s. They got on that whole boom, and they started with cosmetics companies and the first coffee company they bought was Pete's. And I guess that went well for them. And so they've really just stuck with beverages. Since then they have some money invested in pet care, too. You might want to see where your pet food is coming from. But Unknown 20:45 who could have thought that? Oh, a little donut company has such a history of like war crimes and theft. It's crazy. Unknown 20:53 Yeah, so March 2018. This is a headline the family that controls Stumptown Coffee is grappling with its Nazi roots. There you go. At least they're questioning. They're grappling. Yeah, there you go. Right. Unknown 21:05 Dunkin Donuts founded by, okay now, German immigrants.the. what!... we are pivoting right now from the Nazis to the Jewish immigrants from Germany. Unknown 21:17 We fell into comparing these two coffees by complete accident. Yeah. But somehow they are perfectly intertwined. Unknown 21:26 I want you to not get your hopes up about Dunkin Donuts because it also has a rich rich history. You laughed a little bit like oh, you just wait you just wait. You just wait until it get to the eighties. It all goes to shit in the withering. You Unknown 21:43 know what, you know, we grew up in the 80s it was shit for us too. Alright, so Dunkin Unknown 21:47 Donuts, are you ready to jump into this new story? Okay, so William Rosenberg, Little Billy Rosenberg was born in 1916. In Boston. His parents were German Jews who had fled… Fled Krispy Kreme… Fled Krispy Kreme. His dad owned a grocery store in Boston that unfortunately closed again the Great Depression came along and poor little poor little Billy Rosenberg had to drop out of eighth grade and support the family. So at age 14, he got a job delivering for Western Union. Then when he was old enough to drive a car he got a job with simco. by the time he was like 21 He was running the whole show there. That's a go getter. Um, he got a job at Bethlehem Steel. He was the first Jewish trade union delegate there. Get it, Billy. Yes. After World War Two he had $1,500 in war bonds that he cashed in. He borrowed another $1,000 It was enough to buy a catering truck his first business Unknown 22:51 it was about $38,000 Unknown 22:53 Oh, well, that's good. Start off to buy a catering truck. Yeah, Unknown 22:56 he named his first business Aaaaaaaahhh… Are you gonna cut that out? Yeah. Unknown 23:08 Just leave it all. And maybe we need to leave that in. Unknown 23:17 Industrial luncheon services, but this first company and he had a catering truck and he delivered lunch and coffee breaks next to factory workers all around the outskirts of Boston. So this is late 1940s He's doing this. Yes, this is he started the business right after the war. He was so successful that within just a couple of years, he had like 200 trucks. Unknown 23:41 Oh my god. Wow. Unknown 23:42 You know what? I feel like there was a day and age where you could actually do stuff like that. And I don't know why it's not like that anymore. Oh, it is you just Unknown 23:50 have to have people that want to do that. You know, Unknown 23:53 people just don't want to work like that. people just Unknown 23:55 don't. I don't want to manage 200 trucks. Of anything. God, I can barely manage myself. Unknown 24:02 Yeah. It seems like it would be a lot. He um, and what he discovered was that the doughnuts and coffee were the most popular item like 40% of its sales and coffee Unknown 24:13 and he was using data that I know. Unknown 24:16 That's how he got here. Because he was like real, he was really sharp about it. He Unknown 24:21 was a really smart guy. He definitely was. Okay, so he decided to open a brick and mortar restaurant because the food trucks were doing so well and it was just going to be a donut shop just doughnuts and coffee. He called he opened in 1948. So this is like four years after he bought his first truck. He's just crushing it. Unknown 24:38 I mean, this guy, I don't even know, this guy. He's probably what like 22. By this point, Unknown 24:42 he was probably more like in his early 30s at this point. So he opened Open Kettle and then in 1950s Some kind of marketing executive convinced him that he should change the name that Open Kettle wasn't a good enough name and he should change it to Dunkin Donuts. Unknown 24:58 I mean, I get it, like Open Kettle. Yeah, like I'm going to go get some Open Kettle donuts. It just isn't, it doesn't have a ring. Unknown 25:06 Right? So they consider that the founding of the company 1950. Okay, even though that exact store existed in 1942. That's what their bag says, too. The brick and mortar store did exceptionally well also. Oh, you know when he was offering most donut shops had five different varieties of doughnuts he was offering 52 varieties. Holy moly. That was his gimmick. Unknown 25:30 That's like how they became Baskin Robbins Baskin Robbins just like we have dozens of flavors. 31 flavors and yeah, that it seemed like a match made in heaven then. They're just really into their flavors Unknown 25:42 but no, not it's like back to like five flavors. like you go to Dunkin Donuts. There's like five. I can’t even think of Unknown 25:46 52, i can’t even imagine that many flavors. maple bacon? Unknown 25:53 Donut flavored doughnuts. Like little donuts on top of donuts. Unknown 25:59 A Dunkin Donuts today they were offering a donut with a Stroopwafel on top of it. Unknown 26:07 A stroopwafel! I should have gotten one. Unknown 26:08 I like I like donut sprinkles on a doughnut. Doughnut on my donut. That's a good one. Yeah. Unknown 26:13 Oh my god. I cannot wait to eat the doughnuts. Let's please. Unknown 26:16 Okay, you know what? We can't rush it though. Unknown 26:18 That's true. I came a lot of time on Krispy Kreme. Unknown 26:23 Boxes of donuts. Unknown 26:24 Krispy Kremes are definitely tainted. Okay. I am like drooling right now though. Right down my face. Unknown 26:30 Oh, all right. Um, by 1955 He was opening his sixth location and that's when he was like, I need to start franchising because I'm fucking exhausted. So he started selling franchises. His son became the CEO at age 25. So he was apparently a real go getter too. Unknown 26:46 Wow, 25 huh. Although, I mean, yeah, I Unknown 26:50 think maybe he had a leg up already. Yeah. Unknown 26:52 I don't know. Did he really work his way up to CEO at 25? Unknown 26:58 He started at the bottom at like vice CEO. At 7 years old. Unknown 27:05 And so that was in 1963. They already had 100 locations by 1963 Unknown 27:11 years later, we're killing it. Wow. Unknown 27:14 Well, let me just tell you what ended up happening so little Billy in 1968 He bought a farm because he wanted to breed horses and he retired to his farm so like fuck it I'm done. And he actually like was really good at breeding. This guy Unknown 27:33 really does not fail., no. Unknown 27:33 He was like, This is what I'm doing now even though it has nothing to do with anything I've ever done. And look at me. I'm great at it. And he passed away in 2002 from cancer, like a very nice life it seemed. Yes. Unknown 27:48 If I get successful. It's like I want to live out my days making horses fuck. Unknown 27:51 That's beautiful. All right, in 1990 they were purchased by Allied Lyons. Allied Lyons is a British investment company. They were a beverage company, spirits and wine mostly. And a couple other things. Unknown 28:12 Now Allied Lyons is already sounding better than Nazis. Yes. Okay. Allied Lyons has also bought Baskin Robbins. They went together. Allied Lyons was like we need all the flavors. They're like, we want your 52 We want your 31 Unknown 28:28 Yes, all of it. Unknown 28:29 I see something about 9/11 in those notes. I'm like wondering what is going on here? Unknown 28:33 Yeah, shits about to go down. Allied Lyons also purchased another company called Mr. Donuts. Unknown 28:41 Ah, it sounds so cute. Listen to this. Unknown 28:45 Mr. Donut was owned by Harry Winokur the brother in law of Bill Rosenberg. Who's Bill Rosenberger? Owner of Dunkin Donuts. So his bother in law, Harry worked with him at Dunkin Donuts. So, Harry and Billy had like a falling out. Of some kind Harry opened his own donut shop called Mr. Donut. It was Dunkin Donut’s number one competitor. Oh shit. They have 550 locations in the US 10,000 locations worldwide. Unknown 29:20 I never heard of this company. I've never heard of them either. So this was definitely during the time we were alive. Yes. Wow. Unknown 29:27 Mr. Donut still exists as Mr. Donut all over Asia, and they are owned by a Japanese conglomerate called Mitsui. Mitsui, I encourage you to look them up. I went to their Wikipedia page and started reading and I was like oh, fuck it. I can't I can't get into like another conglomerate but there's a whole other story there. So we can do a whole Mr. Donot episode someday. So Allied Lyons buys Mr. Donut and tells all the franchisees 550 In the US if you would like to become a Dunkin Donuts, you're welcome two of those 550, 549 said yes, we will become a Dunkin Donuts and that is how Dunkin grew in the 90s. He's kind of Unknown 30:13 a shady guy. Stole those donut recipes. But that's funny because it's very similar to Krispy Kreme. Yeah. Shia’s great grandfather. Unknown 30:22 Talk about cease and desist. “Stop telling everyone my grandparents owned a donut shop.” I guess he’ll have to come on the episode and clear it up for us. Shia, open invite. do your grandparents… Unknown 30:37 Do you have an excellent family recipe that you'd like to talk about? Unknown 30:42 Here's where things take an ugly turnfor our friends at Dunkin Donuts. 2005, Dunkin and Baskin Robbins are sold to a private equity consortium. Consortium? One of those. What's right, um, Some of which some of the the private equity companies you've heard of. Oh, I sure I have. Unknown 31:10 Halliburton. No. Unknown 31:15 Ah, Thomas H. Lee Parker partners is one of them. I haven't heard of them and couldn't find any dirt. Me neither. So they've probably very similar… Unknown 31:22 That means they’ve probably got a ton of dirt. That's Unknown 31:24 What I was going to say. I was like, that's the missing 150 years. It’s their whole company. Unknown 31:30 Bain Capital, or did everybody familiar with them? Mitt Romney's company? It was Mitt Romney's idea. It was, I'm sorry, it was Bain capital's idea to put together this consortium and to purchase Dunkin Donuts. Unknown 31:44 I mean, in light of all recent political developments, Mitt Romney's kinda come out a little bit of a hero. Should I hate Bain Capital any more? You should Unknown 31:54 definitely hate you should absolutely. Bain Capital became so good at purchasing successful companies and tearing them apart because it was more financially viable in the moment to just bust up the company and sell it Unknown 32:12 for parts. That’s bullshot. Mitt, I was almost on your side. Unknown 32:16 They're the worst, Bain Capital. They're the worst. Oh, wait… Unknown 32:20 we are totally gonna get sued. This is what I do Unknown 32:22 know about Bain Capital. Um, they manage $140 billion dollars. Unknown 32:28 That’s a lot of billions. That is too many billions. Unknown 32:30 and what they what they really did perfect was that CEOs should maximize shareholder value rather than any other goals Unknown 32:44 Ugh, the shareholders. Unknown 32:46 The last private equity group is the Carlyle Group. Unknown 32:50 Now I don't know much about them. If you said the Koch brothers, I would have just died on the spot. Okay. Well, Unknown 32:55 let me tell you what the Carlyle Group invest in military electronic military communication electronic warfare systems, the United Defense Industries which produces combat vehicles, artillery, naval guns on side monitors and precision munitions, which… Unknown 33:13 Dunkin, because America needs to run on something other than guns. Unknown 33:17 So if Bain Capital is basically just Mitt Romney, the Carlyle Group is basically just the Bush family and and the bin Laden family. Oh Unknown 33:26 Shit. This goes deep! Unknown 33:29 The bin Ladens actually had to pull their money. There was like an embarrassing little incident. An embarrassing little incident. My favorite part I'm finally getting to it. Shafiq bin Laden was to be the guest speaker at the annual investor conference. For the Carlyle Group at the Ritz Carlton in Washington DC. Unknown 33:59 This is after they purchased Dunkin. Yes. Unknown 34:00 Let me just check the date on that. Ah, September 11 2001. Shafiq bin Laden, the keynote speaker for the Carlyle investment meeting. Yeah, what the fuck? So I'm Unknown 34:20 shocked. Like we're a little coffee podcast, Unknown 34:26 major corporation, like beyond major corporations. What have stumbled upon? So we're going to… Oh my God, why is there somebody with sunglasses in a suit walking up to my door? *knocking sound* Guys. What the fuck? Probably this is how we get our podcast taken off the air by telling too much. Unknown 34:41 These people do not still own Dunkin Donuts sigh of relief. While they did own Dunkin Donuts. Unknown 34:47 How long did they own them for? Unknown 34:49 they owned them until recently I think, Unknown 34:53 Did Dunkin donuts fund either side of 911, or both sides? We can't say that for sure. You don't have to answer that. I’m just gonna leave that question out there. Unknown 35:06 I actually think that okay, Dunkin Donuts actually became independent in 2012. Okay, so that's how long they were on. I can't believe, 2002-2012 Unknown 35:20 I am like astonished right now. So the Carlyle Group is Bush, the Bush family. And I was just about to you know what, George Bush had been making all those paintings and stuff. Like doing this cute, sweet, old man like got wrapped up into something you didn't know what was happening. You just came from this family. You Unknown 35:39 know he is not an enlightened man. He's a horrible person. Am I not allowed to say that? okay, Unknown 35:47 you can have your opinions but like, I actually don't know what we're talking about anymore. Okay, we Unknown 35:51 Were talking about the Carlyle Group and how they own Dunkin Donuts and how the Carlyle Group was owned by Osama Bin Ladin or maybe not him, but the bin Laden family, and the Bushes. Where are we right now? So Unknown 36:02 right now, um, this private equity group owns Dunkin Donuts. And here's something fun that they did while they were owners. They discovered that franchises that were single franchises where one person owned one franchise and that was it were a lot more trouble than franchises where one owner owned multiple franchises so what they did to try to eliminate the single owner the single franchise locations Unknown 36:30 Wait, who's eliminating this? Carlyle. And Bain, the whole consortium. So they were like partners? The fellowship of the donut ring. The evil rich people get together. So what else did they own though? I’m sure they didn’t all just come together just for Dunkin Donuts. Unknown 36:45 Oh actually they did just come together for Dunkin Donuts. And Baskin Robbins. So the evil Unknown 36:49 heads of power of the world, of the United States and in the Middle East coming together for doughnuts and ice cream? This is world peace. Unknown 37:00 Um, so they forced the fourth single store owners into buyouts to get rid of them. And what they did was, you know, if you have a franchise and somebody from corporate comes and checks to make sure that you're not breaking any rules, and if you're doing something wrong, normally they attempt to help you fix it, because they want you to keep making money. What they did was whenever someone did something wrong, and they were a single franchise owner, they just sued them. Oh, what the fuck. God damn. They sued 154 franchise owners over the course of two years, which is like unprecedented, like other companies in that same time period with four times as many franchisees have like maybe eight lawsuits against franchise owners like it just doesn't happen. No company wants to do that. Unknown 37:46 I wonder if that’s why my job sold. Oh, because there was a bunch of inspections happening all the time. Wow, this is crazy. Unknown 37:55 In 2020 Inspire Brands purchased Dunkin and Baskin. They are the largest restaurant company in the US. I was curious who actually owns Inspire Brands. It is the Roark Capital Group. The Roark Capital Group, Atlanta private equity firm, majority owner of Inspire. on the front page of their website they explain that the name Roark capital comes from Howard Roark, the protagonist in the Fountainhead Unknown 38:26 Ayn Rand. Yeah, so now we know. Unknown 38:29 Yep, so that's who selling us our Dunkin Donuts. I… better than Nazis. I guess if… Unknown 38:39 well if we go down the rabbit hole of Ayn Rand… Unknown 38:42 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like if these people are really inspired by Ayn Rand then we've got problems with dunkin donuts too for sure. Yeah, I mean, you cannot purchase something from a corporation and feel good about it ever. That was what we have learned today. Happy donut wars. Unknown 38:57 Well, shall we brew some coffee? And then we’ll bring to you some messages from a local, small, independent coffee roaster. Modest Coffee roasts the highest quality single origin coffees without the snobbery. They take the guesswork out of buying specialty coffee by carefully curating green coffees and sorting them to one of their tiers based on cupping score price, flavor notes and roast level go to www dot modest dot coffee forward slash no bad reviews to see what they're roasting today. Pip pip Cheerio! Unknown 39:38 All right, here we are the olfactory reveal. Right now I am opening up the Dunkin Donuts. Unknown 39:44 I want to quickly read the description of both coffees from both websites because they're so hilariously similar. Krispy Kreme Old 1937 Ground Coffee rich and robust a full bodied blend to awaken your senses. Like all it says about the coffee on the website, no idea what else is going on with it. Unknown 40:04 17 pages of doughnuts, three sentences. Unknown 40:09 The Dunkin Dark is deliciously smooth with a robust finish. Both say robust. Dunkin Dark awakens your senses. Isn't that funny? Unknown 40:19 They had the same marketing department. Let me see the grind on these. Oh, here's an interesting the Dunkin Donuts is a coarser grind. Then, the Krispy Kreme and looking at them side by side the color of the Dunkin is a much lighter color than the Krispy Kreme Unknown 40:37 Yeah, a huge variety of coffees on their website, a huge variety of levels of quality, a huge variety of flavors. They have like a coffee quiz that you can take on the Dunkin Donuts website so you know which coffee to buy. Unknown 40:51 What do you like in your coffee? Hazelnut. Like surprise Unknown 40:55 you would like Hazelnut! Alright, finally, Unknown 41:01 so Steph is putting out the Dunkin right now. Unknown 41:04 I'm going to get in. Get in on this olfactory. Does it smell robust and bold? Unknown 41:11 Is it awakening your senses? Unknown 41:12 I'm awake. A Krispy Kreme. Just right off the bat is like really attacks, attacks the nose. Unknown 41:20 It like gets right up in there. Right up in your nose. Let's see. All right. So I've got Krispy Kreme in my right hand and Dunkin in my left eye noticing that the Dunkin Donuts coffee has a much softer scent. Unknown 41:32 If you start with the Dunkin, your palate’s probably messed up. Unknown 41:36 Well, I didn’t even sip them yet. I'm just talking about the smell. Yeah, it's my nose palate. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know you can have a nose palate too. Unknown 41:43 I mean, it's like the same palate. It's connected to your nose. Unknown 41:49 So because I'm just sniffing too much that they both do now. Unknown 41:53 Alright, so Krispy Kreme definitely has a stronger scent, fragrance odor. I don't know what would be the right word for that seems like there's not really a good word. Aroma. Aroma. There we go. Alright, so now we're going to try them step by step. Unknown 42:10 I tried a sip of the Krispy Kreme and that was, again aggressively Unknown 42:15 Bold.I brewed these to like make sure the water temperatures stayed the same and to make sure they're brewed at the exact same speed. Unknown 42:22 And that's interesting though, because I took a sip of the Dunkin and it got much higher acidity almost like it’s under extracted Unknown 42:29 a little bit yeah, I mean that could be because of the the coarser grain that always affects the speed in which it brews to and why Unknown 42:35 they're both very aggressive Unknown 42:39 you know what I think? I am wow, I I'm, I'm thinking that a little bit a cream and sugar are gonna go really well in these coffees. I was Unknown 42:55 really rooting for a black win I stopped by Dunkin. Unknown 43:00 Yeah, especially based on how it smelled when we first opened it. It smelled much better. It’s pretty pleasant. Yeah, very palatable. Uh huh. Unknown 43:08 I can drink it black. I didn't drink this Dunkin Donuts black. Unknown 43:14 Are those times you hit the drive thru? Oh, yeah. Unknown 43:17 Does it remind you like is this as good as a drive Unknown 43:19 thru? It's definitely better than the dive thru because it hasn't been sitting for four hours which is what the drive thru coffee is generally. Yeah. Like, Unknown 43:29 do you normally drink your coffee black? Unknown 43:30 I do normally drink my coffee cool so that helps to level set Unknown 43:35 so I let it cool a little and I think the Dunkin black it's my preferred over the Krispy Kreme black. Unknown 43:40 I agree. The Krispy Kreme definitely like has some bitterness. It's definitely an unpleasant aftertaste. Unknown 43:47 Yeah. It's almost reminds me a little bit of the maple bacon before cream and sugar. Unknown 43:52 Yeah, without the flavor without the added flavor without really aggressively. Unknown 43:57 Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I much prefer the Dunkin Donuts and I will keep drinking that black. I'm fine with drinking that black. Unknown 44:04 I'm gonna add some Oatly to my coffees. And see what that does. Because we know that only is the way I normally drink my coffee. Unknown 44:11 Um, my notes say Central African and Indo Pacific beans. Unknown 44:15 So that's Sumatra and the Sumatra it's got a nice little like tobaccoy vanillay like funk to it doesn't take a lot but I I think that might be what I'm tasting. Does Unknown 44:27 it taste lush, well rounded and satisfied because that's what the chief marketing officer says it will taste like. Unknown 44:34 I identify more with like, the robust in the bold. Unknown 44:40 I'm going to finally taste a donut I'm the only one who hasn't cheated yet today. Unknown 44:43 Well, I will be trying those in just a second but I am trying my coffee. Oh, yeah. The oatly does tone down the Krispy Kreme that does level the playing field a little bit. Yeah, I went Unknown 44:55 for half and half this round and on the Dunkin I feel like yeah, I would be satisfied with this in my cup. Unknown 45:02 Some coffees, you got to add some sweetness to bring out their best flavor, right? Do you wonder if maybe having a little bit of a more bitter coffee is meant to be eaten with a doughnut? Like if I take a bite of donut and then drink a sip of coffee is that going to do it? Unknown 45:18 I just did that with a Krispy Kreme and the coffee was a lot better with that sugary donut lingering. Krispy Kreme did specifically say that this coffee was perfectly designed to go with their donut. The idea behind Krispy Kreme though is that they do want you to go with a donut. Unknown 45:37 Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Unknown 45:39 I tried adding sugar to my Krispy Kreme. It's still not there yet. I'm kind of afraid to go to the alcohol. Yeah, I know where this is going. I'm gonna have to Unknown 45:53 Now Marcus is going through the whiskey. I have to say now I've tried the Dunkin donut in comparison to the Krispy Kreme donut by far Krispy Kreme is 100% superior. Unknown 46:03 I'm about to say something very controversial. I'm not saying I like the Dunkin donut better than the Krispy Kreme. I'm having trouble deciding which one I like better. Oh, and like Krispy Kreme. Unknown 46:15 I hit it with the whiskey. You hit it with the whiskey? And this is again this is like it's I don't know, maybe it's like the more robust a coffee is, it kind of works. Unknown 46:23 I just added more sugar to my Krispy Kreme coffee so we'll see if that can get it to where I want to drink it. Unknown 46:28 You might have to pull out the big guns. Unknown 46:31 Alright, I've added whipped cream to my Krispy Unknown 46:33 Kreme. All right, well, the whiskey definitely improves things right? Like, it's weird how well it rounds it out whenever it works. I mean, yeah, cheers. Unknown 46:45 I think I like Krispy Kreme a little bit better with the whipped cream too. Unknown 46:48 Are we all in agreement about our favorite coffee? Unknown 46:50 I thought Dunkin Donuts just palatable just taking it one step to Oatly. Totally. Unknown 46:54 Yeah, I think it needed less work to get there. There you go. Unknown 46:58 We all knew kind of at what level these coffees were going to be right? There's no surprises and there's you know, diner coffee has its place. Unknown 47:05 For sure. So, Steph, who are these coffees for? I think these are for everyone. That's nice. Unknown 47:11 I mean, I think it's probably somebody who you know, just Oh, I love hitting the drive thru at Dunkin. And so I'm going to pick up a bag of this to have at home. Unknown 47:20 And I feel like the Krispy Kreme who that's for is the 1950s steel worker who walked around with a flask in his pocket. Like hey, I just starting my day. A little tipple. Unknown 47:36 This episode was a wild ride through history. I mean, I'm still stunned from everything I've learned about both Krispy Kreme and Dunkin. We're definitely going to have to take a road trip to Mr. Coffee right outside St. Louis. Yes. That was the most inspirational thing I learned. So but yeah, great second episode. Really interesting. You did awesome research, Steph. I was like captivated the entire time. Captivated I could not wait to hear what Unknown 48:04 it was underneath and who Unknown 48:06 knew so much drama existed around coffee. Unknown 48:10 Just you'd never even think twice about it. Don't even. Dunkin donuts just go get some donuts and a coffee. Hit the drive thru you don't even know Right? So much drama. Unknown 48:18 If you enjoyed this episode. Please make sure you like and share and subscribe. And rate and rate with no bad reviews. On your favorite, your favorite podcast Unknown 48:32 purveyor of podcasts. Unknown 48:36 And if you'd like us to try some coffee, make sure you send us an email to Hello at no bad reviews podcast com Unknown 48:45 And also make sure that you find us on the social medias. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at no bad reviews pod. And also, we're working on getting a Patreon set up so hopefully that will be coming out soon where you've got a lot of really great ideas for bonus content that we're really excited to share with you but we want to get this going first but that's also coming soon. We're gonna try bad reviews of a good thing. But that's like what does everybody like? And I said Betty White, and then Marcus started giving her a bad review and I'm like, this isn't gonna work. Unknown 49:21 Like we will like literally get our house bombed. Yeah. Anyway thank you for joining us. And we'll see you next week. Steph Do you want to sign off? Bye! Unknown 50:06 thank you for listening to this podcast generously sponsored by modest coffee, purveyors of single origin coffee without the snobbery visit WWW dot modest dot coffee forward slash no bad reviews to see what they're roasting today. Enjoy